bonesthrown video: pt II of interview with adwoa toku

adwoa toku is a lover, earth worker, art maker and self- proclaimed body nerd rooted in community based within Treaty 13 land in Tkaronto

Interview conducted on 9/7/2022 thru the ether, between Nelson + Toronto. Click the button to visit the transcription of the first half of our exchange, or to listen along on youtube ★

kristen: how do you place yourself among these changes? what gifts do you feel are readying themselves through you in this liminal time, this time of transformation? and 4th question: how do you practice magic?

adwoa: for the first part, of what gifts i feel are readying themselves in me. right now, what feels really true - i think that we’re all here to play different roles. and right now i think my role is around how much can i hold? an ever expansiveness - the idea of all shifting perspectives and ways and uncomfortable feelings and conflict and things. and the words coming to me lately are ~ bless this mess ~ the mess of my own self, of my own life. straight up chaos nature, and chaos brain. i think of my own personal work, as i mentioned earlier, of calling those parts back in, and facing shame, and facing guilt, and facing those parts of me that feel like they don’t fit.

the more and more i show love to those parts, the more and more i call those parts in, the more i’m able to hold this bigness and fullness of myself, it’s sooooooo….i can just show up better. that’s really just it - i can show up better, and hear better, and see better, all the ways other people are trying to hold their own bigness. and it just softens my heart. and it’s this ever softening that is what i want my role to be in this life. 

a: we have seen the current climate, politically, socially, amongst ourselves, in notions of what is right and wrong, and how people should act, and what we should* do. and it has been really painful to see. its hurt, to see the ways you know, nothing makes sense, and this is still how we treat ourselves? and it’s to no fault of any one’s own, we just haven’t been taught. we’re not taught how to deal with conflict, we’re not taught how to deal with messy feelings, we’re not even taught how to deal with people that we love not agreeing with us. that feels like a painful situation, when it’s really not. when actually, we’re all our own autonomous beings, and it’s so okay to love someone and not agree, on the very minute, but also on the very grand. and what that does for us. i’ve been having a lot of conversations about the idea of divinity. about our higher selves, and this n that or that n this. within myself i sometimes challenge the idea of a higher self into the idea of a wider self

k: i love that!!

adwoa: you know?  this ever reaching, blanketness, of how far can i stretch? how much can i hold? - i’m seeing like a huge hug right - like not obviously of my physical body, but of my energy - like how much can i hold? and not in a way that feels extractive, or exploitative, or will lead me to burn-out, but in a way that is *so* pleasurable.  where i’m just like - heck yea i want to see you! or heck yea, i can do that. and we all have different roles. so many people have different ways that they’ll join in the Big Dance. but i just feel called, in my own specific self, to be that idea of wideness. you know? i think a lot about how i live myself. i just finished my yoga teacher training, but i’m also in the mosh pit… i’m trying to hold all these different things together. and i think as a society - and i’m saying this because it’s true in me, and it has been a lot of my own personal work — i think we’re afraid of the things that make us feel good as a society still. and so much of that, once we feel like we’re wanting to embark in, or be, or move towards a place of perceived goodness. that we feel like all these things can’t come along with us. and in my own life, and in my own self, i want to challenge that; because i don't  want to lose those parts of me. it comes back to that again… i don’t ever want to lose those parts of me that’s just like… a dirtbag. you know?

k: cackles**

a: a little frikken pre-pubescent skater boy. 

k: a little shithead, lol

a: right? i never want to lose that part of me! but also and, i want to be a clear channel of divinity, that is right here. and i absolutely believe those two things can exist together, and all of the stuff that is a part of it, is exactly why it exists that way. i wrote in my journal one time, like

~ patron saint of dive bars

goddess of basement shows ~

and i was just being annoying in my journal, but like, that still feels so reaaal.  it still feels like something i lean back into, like YES to be holy, and sweaty, and a bit of a dummy, but still see that all truth is truth within that you know? and i do not have to be any one thing in order to access this —and quite specifically, it is because of the life i’ve led that i’m able to sit with the things i’m wanting to sit with now. and it feels hard a lot of the time, it feels not real. sometimes i have to question if i just want to hold on to bad habits to hold on to them. you know? like straight up

kristen: *laughs*

a: but also - can’t there be a way? i’m thinking of clarissa pinkola estes, and women who run with wolves, and the whole section on the dirty goddesses, and the open belly goddesses, and this idea of the holiness of the muck. and mud being true true true paradise, heaven, All. and i think that the more i try to release these shames within myself, of all these things i feel can’t be held together, the more that muddiness and the divinity in that mudiness shows itself. cuz then i see that there’s not one way. i see that there’s a way for all of us. and i see that it’s not easy; i have to question every single thing i do, you know? does it make sense that you meditate in the morning, then drink 5 beers in the afternoon with your buddies?? you know? are those two things really conducive? yes! they are they are. cuz as i ground myself in the morning, i come to my friends just a little more real. so i’m not getting wasted, and putting my shit on them. i’m actually having a good time! and i can see where my limit is, and i can move in a way that feels, with integrity, but also feel like i don’t have to lose any parts of myself that i think are parts i enjoy.  i am who i am! and we love our peaceful angels, we love our love n light peeps… there are those that embody these very pure like qualities — but i’m just not one of them. and that’s okay. and you know, i’m also thinking a lot about my earlier 20s and late teens, and where that was a source of shame and pain, and where i tried really hard to embody this different idea of what i think someone who wants to see what clarity is. it just always felt too hard, it always felt like… it just didn’t get to the depths of it. you know again, that deep trust. how can i have faith in anything if i believe that there are parts of me that can’t come along for the ride. you know? and how can i trust that things are going to be okay, if i’m controlling myself so hard, that if i veer from this, i’ll ruin something somehow? as i work through all of that within myself, i think that is what i offer into the grand collective. just a remembrance that those dirty parts of us, those weird parts of us, those parts of us that we think can’t come along, that’s actually exactly* where the medicine is. it’s exactly where our learning is. exactly where our truth is. you know? yea. yea. that’s what’s coming up right now.

k: it’s welcome, and loveable! it’s all loveable!

a: it’s all loveable, it’s all loveable, it’s all loveable

k: something i’ve been thinking about for sure, especially in climate education work, which sometimes i do, and which often when i’m in those spaces, give me a lot of pleasure  — i’ve been thinking about this foundation that has been robbed of us, under the the colonial regimes, and all the  indoctrination we’ve gone through — this very spiritual foundation that we would have had, in most pre-colonial societies (that continue to exist). what if we knew that we were loveable, no matter what? what if we knew, as children, and then from the ground up, growing from that, just knew that we were loved no matter what?? no matter who we were, who we dated, or like how many beers we drank, like you said! that we knew that we were loved, unconditionally.

a: unconditionally!

k: we talk about love, we talk about unconditional love, a lot as a culture, but we don’t really know what that feels like. and it is related to the faith, and the trust thing. knowing that Source and Spirit and God or the universe, or whatever u want to call it, loves us no matter what. and i’m really grateful you are acknowledging the dirtbag parts of you, making space to welcome and honour that part of you, because i have that too. and lately, i’ve been like, is it okay… to… you know all this questioning…you know - like ‘is it okay that i like to drink beers?’ 

a: literally!

k: and the past few weeks i’ve been like… i need a beer a night! lol 

a: literally right! 100%

k: and not feeling shitty about it! u know?

a: exactly. that’s exactly it too right: should i, would i, could i? and these ways that when we restrict ourselves, we expect others to restrict themselves, and it’s always this consistent feedback loop. 

adwoa: i was listening to this podcast really recently, and the idea of the episode was talking about trauma and vegetation gods. and this idea that through myth, and through folklore, and old old stories, the ways of transformation 1: were ALWAYS rooted in the natural world. there were always always always specific plants, herbs, trees, that are complete, or necessary in those stories right? even if historians and theologians passed it off as a detail amongst the plot of humans, it was actually like that plant showed up and was there for cultural significance, mythical significance, spiritua; significance. that half of it blew my mind. and the other half of it: transformation often took place in ways that we in the modern world would see as chaotic, even violent, scary. and not in a comforting gentle environment. we had to come up against our own physical and human limits. and the idea of intentional pain. and how pain is held and of course we don’t throw ourselves into messed up situations just to say we did it…but the ways that when we hold space, and we make room for these parts of us that we feel are ugly and unlovable or you know, too much to actually come through, how transformation is made in leaps and bounds. and i think so much of the kink community, and how secularized, and out of context possibly, but the consensual space to be like — wow, ok i’m going to test my limits. + i want to see where i can meet myself, and what that looks like, and all the different ways that looks like. and how so many things we engage in, that we may feel like, not the right way, or whatever it is, is actually where so much alchemy is, because it’s coming from this place where our own guards are down, and we’re saying yes to it. and yes in the old days, and the old ways, there was ritual. and again, in pre-colonial days, we weren’t cut off from these things, so we didn’t have to separate them in different places, because it was actually a part of the rites. but we’re here now right. and so how do we ourselves access that, when we are cut off from these old ways, these pre-colonial  practices? because yea, thinking of the future, what if we can’t get back to any old way? what if we cannot reach into it far to bring that with us? what’s born from that? i think that’s a question that i sit with a lot. because of course we will have fragments of our ancestors, and we’ll remember forever; we ARE because* of them. it’s not even this idea that we won’t look back, because everything we are IS proof that they existed. pure actual knowing that there was the old ways to begin with. but in that,  what else can we bring, what else can come from that? a lot of that is what i feel and see in these muddy dirty ways, and it feels very important to just name that. and as i name it for myself, all the time, it feels like that is what i can offer to the big-ness! to you know, the big is all. that constant reminding to myself that there is value in the dirt and the mud and the creepy crawly weird grimy parts of it all. its all necessary, it all serves a purpose as well.

k: one of my favourite quotes that i bring up all the time, that i haven’t named in a while…

rot and regeneration are simultaneous. 

a: yes!

k: and its so true, you know. if you’re doing, or interested in change or alchemy, you have to confront that shit is part of the magick of the flower! literally!

a: yes! we love compost here, and compost IS shit!! you know! it’s necessary. i think that’s a good segway into how i practice magic. i think how i practice magick is thoroughly and wholly right through my body. you know? that feels the most alive right now. i had someone i was spending time with recently say i have healing hands. which i haven’t been able to stop thinking about! and another friend i’ve been doing 1on1 private sessions with, and they affirmed the wisdom that i have about the body that they’ve seen forever. cuz i was, throughout the session, i was saying ‘i’ve done my training’, ‘I’m feeling more equipped’, this and that, ‘i think i have the tools’… and they were like — also, but you’ve always had the tools! you’ve always understood the body, i’ve seen it in you. it just feels affirming you know? my body feels like the actual conduit, the actual alchemy that i put out into this earth. and being with the earth. you know. the spirit of earth and that embodiment, in Ghana, where my family live, is called Asase Ya. and this year specifically, i went on this huge search, because i just wanted to know more about her — i was like,  who is this being? when we talk about colonialism, when we talk about spirituality, there are like, huge gaps between the folk spiritual understandings of parts of where my lineage is from, that’s completely crowded over by Christianity. and because of that, i feel like i have to do a broad like google search, on everything! learn! you know? like what the heck is up, what stories can i find? and one specifically that stood out was they were talking about Asase Ya, and devotion, and all these things. and the part of the passage read like - “anyone who works with the Earth  is a child of Asase Ya”, and i felt that struck me so deeply because you know, a big part of my understanding of myself is the fact that like yea, Ghana is not actually a place i have familiarity with. i can speak the language and understand the stories, and i’m so glad for the connection i have with there, but also and, i’ve just never lived there. and trying to connect to the spirituality of it, it feels almost a little bit fraught, because i only know here. and for it to  be so broad, that just to work with the Earth itself, is to be in devotion and be in relationship with Asase Ya, feels like everything. it feels exactly … like possible. It feels possible for me to be in relationship with this spirit, with this being, and build a relationship, and be in magic with them, while just actually doing what i do! like my work! and the ways that reverence comes out now. i had a really wild year, all these hot peppers that i’m growing that are seeds from Ghana are doing great! and you know, i give thanks! like omg Asase Ya, thank you!!!! these are the fruits of this relationship, and this feels like actual magic! and it feels like a practice, of like — i have to say that just in terms of magic in general. its always been earth, its always been plants. and when i’m in the kitchen cooking, literally making things, that is when i feel my witchiest. jars of stuff i’ve grown, and throwing it in the pot.…and it feels like what my child self was like, omg that’s a witch! and that feels really real to me. and also feels accessible and possible in these ways of like, understanding, how to take care of myself. understanding plants. being in relationship with plants is how i practice my magic, and all of that comes back to the body right? i even think of like, the tattoos i have, the physical actual scribblings in my body, where its like - those are all spells - regardless of what they were and how they were, each one tells so pointedly of a time in my life, where the tattoo came to me. and yea, some of me are just me rolling into a place and being like - i’m getting a tattoo! but that all in and of itself is also a spell. + i see it so much that it feels like my body is exactly how i practice magic and how i connect to that bigness, like wow yes, physical form!! and how much it can do, and how it does it… that feels really real for me right now.

k: wow thank you. i got the notice we have 10 minutes, but i just want to thank you so much for your ever widening, your ever softening, and all the wisdom you just shared. there’s a couple stories that you reminded me of — 1: your re-relating of Asase Ya reminds me of a story i like to share often. i’ll share it now. i was in a circle many many years ago, with an elder from the mountains of the Philippines, an Ifugao shaman named Mamerto or Lagitan. + i don’t know how long ago it was, it’s been many many moons now since that happened. i was a very different person, and also you know, in my core and essence the same in some ways. but i remember that at that time, i would always be the one to cry in circle. I’m a very fiery person, but also very watery. and at that point i was feeling a lot of grief with loss of eldership. and it was a period of deep mourning of being a diasporic woman, away from the homeland. and i visited the philippines numerous times, not too many. i actually have a craving to go back, which i haven’t felt in a long time. and i suppose in the thick of my decolonization journey, which i think is very common for most folks in the diaspora in decolonization processes. i felt this sadness! that i couldn’t witness the wisdom of my elders, or teachers because of loss of language, not being able to understand them. i think i’m technically second and third generation, in that my dad was born here, but my mom was born in the philippines… there are many languages in the philippines, mom’s side speaks one (Tagalog), my dad’s speaks another (Ilocano); my parents understand, but didn’t pass it down to me. and this is something i can remedy, like i can learn… you used the word fraught. and i remember being in circle with Lagitan, and being in this depth of expression of this sadness, of this loss, of not being able to connect with elders because of the language disconnect. and he 1: honoured the tears — he thanked me for the ocean medicine i was sharing, and said our tears are always welcome. and then 2: the other lesson that really stuck out is— all our elders, and the wisdom that they held, came from their relationship to the land. so if you come back to relationship to the land, they were the first teachers, the original teachers, of those elders who you are seeking to connect with. those trees, the rocks, the water… the pepper plants, you know. flowers, the bees… those are the teachers that our elders would have learned from! and that has been medicine for me. and i think you walk with that medicine, and have brought it into this conversation and this container. so thank you for re-forging those relationships and those connections through your being, and i know that it has these …magnanimous is the word? (i don’t even know what that means) lol, but these HUGE effects you know, that we can’t even be conscious of. 

k: and another thought i had while u were sharing too: its so funny how we want things to make sense. u know? and i think that’s part of living under colonialism and patriarchy as well, is seeking for logic, sense, for things to play out in a way that is understandable. and something i am going to walk out of our conversation with is like, dropping into the pleasure that comes with being with the mystery of things. and maybe part of that reaching back to what our ancestors held as medicine, was dropping some of that desire to know, and dropping some of that desire to like have it figured out? and accepting that is IS chaos, and that the chaos magic is a beautiful dance that we get to be part of creating. i’m tuning in, through your speaking and this exchange, to the possible joy of not having it figured out. not knowing, and being okay with it not making sense. lol

a: exactly exactly exactly.  this is you know, the dance of my life! because nothing has ever made sense, and nothing will! like straight up, if we’re being real! if i needed it to make sense, i would be extremely frustrated because none of it does. and i think that while i come up against resistance, and so much of my own personal work is letting go of that, in the times that i can tap into it, there is a lot of joy, + a lot of liberation, in just being like - nothing makes sense, so i really gotta follow what i feel. i just gotta do the thing, because it won’t make sense anyways! trying to lead by logic has… cut me off from a bunch of myself that i’m now re-awakening, and now coming into conversation with. and all of them just want… the idea of the trickster spirit is coming into head right now… they all just want to play! they all just want to play, and they trust themselves. and they’re just like, if you trusted me, we’d all make it! and i’m just like no, i need a thing, u know…

k: like show me why. why should i trust you? lol

a: why should i trust you? how can i trust you? and i really feel like that’s my work in this life. trust, trust trust trust, that you know,

k: it is as it needs to be.

a: it is as it needs to be, and it will change when it needs to change. and it’ll do what it needs to. but so much of that has so little with what i do with myself. so much of that is out of my will. what IS in my will is good enough for me to ride into.

a: and yea, thank you so much for this conversation. this has been like a really great thought situation in my brain, i don’t usually get to talk about stuff like this, so i’m very happy

k: it makes me so thrilled - every time i have a conversation like this, i’m like - this, this this this. in terms of things makes sense, this* makes sense. and you pointed to something really great that i just want to echo out there. around trusting the feelings!

k: monchy, pointed out, right away, in that first conversation i had with her, learning how to trust the wisdom of the feelings. i’ll share this quote again - “when we’re in our feelings, we’re nobody but ourselves.” i think it was a quote from e.e. cummings that i found after my conversation with monchy. and i think there is so much wisdom into tapping into the body feelings, and learning how to trust the guidance that comes through them, and learning how to be in relationship with the language of expression that feelings are, that i think is also part of the work of our generation.

a: yea - not just to think our feelings, but to feel them right?  to actually be like, whoa, this is that. feelings fall into that right? what feelings do we say we can’t* hold onto, can’t be a part of us, is not a part of the enlightened, the wise, the this, the that… but like also, all feelings are teachers right? and are guiding us to somewhere where we either need to realign, where we are mis-aligned, where we need clarity around. and i think that yea, trying to listen to my actual feelings and feel them is such medicine.

k: yea. truly. it’s big work

a: huge work! lifelong work. forever work! the whole life is this work, lol

k: feelings are a blessing and i’m glad that i’m not in a place of numbness, i’m glad that i have big feelings, i’m glad that i’m in touch with them - even the sadness and the grief

a: right! mainly the sadness and the grief right? i’m very thankful to be able to have big feelings 100%, i love that u said that.

END.